Al-Awaji, who lives in Saudi Arabia, is a leading figure in an Islamist Saudi opposition group called Committee for the Defense of Legitimate Rights, which was founded in London.
The interview was conducted live on the program "Without Borders," by Al-Jazeera talk show host Ahmed Mansur.
Al-Awaji studied agriculture in Saudi Arabia, earned a doctorate in education in Great Britain, in Wales, and then became an assistant professor of agriculture in Saudi Arabia.
After the Gulf War he became a prominent agitator for reform in Saudi Arabia and was put in prison for a year in 1993, then released. In 1994 he was sentenced to 15 years in prison, served four and was released. The Saudi government has removed him from his position at the university, and revoked his passport in 1995.
From 1995 until he was given permission last week to travel to Qatar for the Al-Jazeera interview, Al-Awaji had not been allowed to leave Saudi Arabia. He speculated that the change in attitude by the Saudi government, now allowing him to travel, was a result of changes in the atmosphere in Saudi Arabia since Sept. 11.
According to Al-Awaji, "since Sept. 11 the standards have become different, the ways of dealing have become different; many of the masks have been pulled away and lifted, and people have become obligated to say the truth, obligated to act with transparency, among the [results] is this meeting of ours - and praise be to God; the governments are obligated now to speak to their people with transparency, the governments which have understood the danger speak with transparency now."
Also he said, "I have noticed since the events of Sept. 11 that the states have paid more and more attention to the public sectors."
Following is a translation of excerpts from the discussion between Ahmed Mansur and Muhsin Al-Awaji. These excerpts are on four topics: the current situation, Arab governments and popular discontent, Osama bin Laden, and terrorism.
In this interview one is reminded that in the public affairs battle of the conflict, voices on many sides of the debates are using similar terminology, but clearly not all are using the same definitions of that terminology.
Al-Awaji defined not only terrorism differently, but also political concepts. He spoke at length about the need for governments to be attentive to the will of the people. He was, however, not advocating a free, open, pluralistic, constitutional democracy, but rather implementation of what he believes is the will of the people, namely an Islamic state.
1. THE CURRENT SITUATION
Mansur: "The terms Islam and Muslims have become synonymous with terrorism and terrorists in the news media and the decision-making centers in the West, and this has happened since the events of this past Sept. 11.
"And the United States of America and Western countries have begun to set forth regulations and make laws which target Muslims in particular. Every Muslim has become suspect without evidence, without proof so that he could establish his innocence. Thousands of Arabs and Muslims are now sitting in American and European prisons. Most of them are Saudis and Gulf Arabs, none of them are facing a specific charge, without any evidence, without any support, regardless of whether they are Arabs or Muslims.
"And just as Islamic charitable and financial institutions have been put on the lists of terrorism, so too have the liberation movements such as Hezbollah, and the Hamas and al-Jihad movements. The United States has become the one defining what is understood by 'terrorism' and who is associated with this, and everyone among the Arabs and the Muslims are in the midst of an official, complete Arab silence.
"… As for Arab governments, they are placing thousands of their sons in prisons, detention centers, and military courts under the pretext of suspicion of terrorism, which increases repression, fanaticism, extremism, and the growth of proclaiming others to be infidels in Islamic societies.
"There are many questions regarding the causes of extremism and terrorism, and the responsibility of governments and the systems [of government] for them."
"... The prisons still ring with those in opposition. There are arrest operations not only in Saudi Arabia, but also in the Gulf countries specifically since Sept. 11."
Al-Awaji mentioned American political scientist Samuel Huntington and said that the situation is "the definitive clash of civilizations ... this conflict between us and other nations [umam] is a true struggle ... they don't have the right to degrade our dignity ... they want us to become mild Muslims and they carry out the most heinous forms of terrorism against us."
2. ARAB GOVERNMENTS AND POPULAR DISCONTENT
Al-Awaji: "The [governing] systems carry out oppression in every shape and form. They arrest without charges, they cram thousands into prisons without charge ..."
Mansur: "But the people are resigned and content … Now the people defend dictatorship and accept it in some ... in many regions."
Al-Awaji: "The people, my dear brother, do not defend dictatorship: The people are forced to obey and follow."
Al-Awaji: "…There is no independent judiciary in the Arab or Muslims system [of government]; there is none at all. ... I would like you to point now, to point to any [Arab] country and say that in this country, there is an independent judiciary. There is in fact no independent judiciary ..."
Mansur: "…Now the Islamist movements are causing a disturbance for the systems [of government]. They demand governance, they are popular in the streets. The ruler faces a choice, either he oppresses or he departs, he loses power. Oppressing is easier than leaving power."
Al-Awaji [suggesting an alternative third route for the ruler, namely an Islamic state]: "What would it be to him if he were to believe in God and the Day of Judgment, and use what God has allotted him? What would it be to him if, if, if he were to apply the law of God [Sharia] as God - who is strong and great - has commanded?"
Mansur broke in saying that the problem with this would be "international pressures ... and politics and many issues."
Al-Awaji: "…If a ruler is going to be representative of his people, reflect the aspirations of his people and the concerns of his people, he must first of all feel for the concerns of his people inside the people's hearts, and how his people think, and what they want."
Mansur: "But the people are content, Doctor."
Al-Awaji: "...the people are not content while the Arab and Islamic governments carry out repression and oppression on their people, not allowing popular opinion to reach to, to, well, the decision[-making] circle. If these popular channels do not exist in order for this opinion to be communicated, then don't tell me that the people are content. The people are not content."
Mansur (interrupting): "They do not express lack of satisfaction, rather they are satisfied."
Al-Awaji: "They are not able to express lack of satisfaction, my dear brother."
Mansur: "Well, if a person has lost the ability of expression, he deserves what happens to him."
Al-Awaji: "My dear brother, this if, if, if a person loses the ability of expression, then it is up to the ruler, whom God - who is strong and great - will ask about his fidelity, to accustom his people to discussing their affairs."
3. OSAMA BIN LADEN
Al-Awaji: "Bin Laden, I tell you completely frankly, this man is wrong.
"...Al-Qaeda ... they want to shake up Islamic societies in which security has become stable, or they target economic activities in Muslim countries which bring harm to them [i.e. the countries] ... objection or protest of the behavior of any government cannot exceed the limit in which we use violence or terrorism as a means to express our principal[s] or our desire."
Mansur: "It is time for the Americans to differentiate with you now of course because of your statements about bin Laden!"
Al-Awaji: "... who expects the Americans to differentiate, the Americans don't differentiate."
4. TERRORISM
Al-Awaji: "Terrorism or extremism, we are not concerned with what circulates in the news media regarding the terms terrorism and extremism, which originally were imported to us from the West. Their definition of terrorism is not the same as our definition of terrorism."
"…Our definition of terrorism is destruction of human civilization (al-harth wa-n-nasl), and ruining the land, and targeting innocents whoever they may be."
Mansur: "Isn't that what the Islamists do?"
Al-Awaji: "Those Islamists who carry out targeting innocents and destruction of human civilization, this is what we call aggression (i'tida'), we do not call it terrorism."
Mansur: "What is the difference between aggression and terrorism?"
Al-Awaji: "Because terrorism is an imported term, a term of Western origin and genesis and birth, we have [instead] in our terminology, in our religion, in our history the term "excess" (ghuluu) for extremism, and we have "aggression" (i'tida') for the term violence; both lead to the same meaning and the terms are indisputable.
"We, we are are not concerned with what the West mentions in its media, because if one were to believe its definition of terrorism, we would accept its definition, and there would be no problem. But there is ambiguity when the West defines terrorism but then connects it only with Muslims. When terrorism comes from non-Muslims, it just gets called by nice names in which there is sympathy and compassion.
"For example I will give you the example that America, for instance, fashioned the Contra revolutionaries … into fighters against the legal Nicaraguan government. These revolutionaries, they funded them with American and non-American money, and they were killing the people in Nicaragua and causing destruction and they were called "Freedom Fighters."
Mansur: "Fighters for the sake of freedom."
Al-Awaji: "... exactly, fighters for the sake of freedom. By comparison any Islamic action would be called terrorism, even if it were legal and within right such as jihad - the Afghans for their country, or the jihad of the Palestinians for their occupied land, or the Kashmiris for their occupied land. Therefore, we don't need the definition which handles of facts with relativism [literally: with measures and gauges]. In our definition, with blessing, we call it excess and we call it aggression.”
Al-Awaji: "... the time has come for Muslims all over the world to take pride in their religion and for governments and people not to rely on the West. America wants to impose its morality and its understanding and interpretation of international law, even at a time when there is a moral decline in American values to the lowest level, as we see now in the places of slaughter which are before our [eyes] in Afghanistan and elsewhere."
© 2026 Newsmax. All rights reserved.